Running Battles

[howeird]

Am having a running battle with lemmozine on FB and here about the chronologically challenged people flooding into the US without parents or papers.

He is all about being good to the children, and I believe he has a greatly exaggerated concept of the dangers they are escaping. I have a greatly exaggerated concept of how these things should be done legally.

We share a heritage of grand and/or great-grandparents being kicked out of their homes by fascist governments who really were killing them what did not scoot fast enough. All of these folks found ways to enter the United States legally, despite racist government quotas, anti-semitic bosses, poverty, and questionable hygiene.

I have no problem with the color of their skin, their religion, their place of birth or their questionable hygiene. I have a problem with their parents not having the guts to come with them. I have a bigger problem with their parents not finding a legal way into the country. It costs far less to apply for a visa than it does to hire smugglers. About 10% of the cost per person. If they are truly refugees, there is a pathway to claim that status and bring the whole family.

But bigger than that, I have a problem with their own countries not fixing the problems they are trying to run away from.

lemmozine is thinking of the children, and I admire that. I am also thinking of the children, but in the long term.

Comments

[lemmozine.livejournal.com]

If it were as easy as you say to get a visa, I'm sure they would do so. I don't think your opinions are based on accurate information. And then, there's this: http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005267

[lemmozine.livejournal.com]

The US, under Roosevelt, sent a boat with over 900 Jews back to Europe to the camps. Your position would tend to favor a repeat of this atrocity.

[howeird]

If there were camps in South America, I would agree. But there aren't.

[lemmozine.livejournal.com]

If we send them back and they die, whether by extermination camps, gangs or even of poverty, it's the same. Dead is dead.

[howeird]

If we keep them here, and they die, whether by random violence, gangs or even of poverty, it's the same. Dead is dead.

[lemmozine.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but what if the Russians shoot down their plane on the way back? And I'd guess the reason most of them came here is the chances of those things happening are way higher where they were.

[howeird]

It wasn't easy for our families to get visas either. Your argument is invalid. :-)

[lemmozine.livejournal.com]

No, it wasn't easy, because there were quotas in place, as there are now, resulting in some of my own family not emigrating and remaining in Hungary. They died in the camps. They should have increased the quotas and made visas easier to get then, and they should do it now, unless, of course, you're in favor of a system with windfall profits for human smuggling. It is your arguments that ignore history, are invalid, and are extremely cruel.

[lemmozine.livejournal.com]

A friend on facebook posted this and I think it probably applies just a bit to both of us:

Person A: Tea is the best drink.
Person B: Coffee is the best drink.
A: ah, but you're forgetting points X, Y and Z.
B: have you considered points 1, 2 and 3?
A: Here are some articles supporting X, and indirectly Y and Z.
B: Yes, but what about points 1, 2 and 3?
A: If you actually read the articles about X, you'd totally agree with me.
B: I read those articles. They don't mention 1, 2 and 3, and therefore don't affect my argument.
A: But X is vitally important, and until you accept X, why should I consider 1, 2 and 3?
B: Your article says "X is often good, but there may be exceptions"
A: Yes, minor exceptions that hardly ever happen, so lets ignore them ...
B: THEY ARE NOT MINOR, and anyway your article was published in "X Supporters Monthly" sponsored by the makers of "Super-X".
A: you're a pig headed ass
B: you're worse than Hitler ..

Did you notice that as that conversation went on, that neither side changed their position? Does this remind you of any other conversations you may have seen (or been part of)?

I have an article here that says the best thing to do is wipe out totally tea and coffee and impose a hot chocolate solution. While others are blaming this entirely on the belief in a superior drink, and we should all just drink water ...

... the rest of us are in the bar, getting hammered!