Obama and the African-American reaction

[howeird]

I am somewhat bothered by the news channels running around interviewing random black people for their reaction to Obama's apparently clinching the nomination. One station did this in a beauty parlor, where at least one of the employees was miffed that Hilary didn't win. IMHO the contest was more between a man and a woman than between a black and a white. Obama was brought up in the white world, and had all the advantages of it except for the stigma of his mother being a single mom. I doubt that he was razzed about the color of his skin in Hawaii, though he may have been on hoity-toity Mercer island. His color certainly didn't keep him out of good schools and he was not economically disadvantaged.

He did choose to move to a black community, change his religion and join a black church, and concentrate on working in the black community. But I know whites and Asians who have done that, and it didn't make them black. :-)

What Martin Luther King said works both ways -

they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.

Comments

[herufeanor.livejournal.com]

Though the fact that you can have a black man running for President, and honestly claim that he has not been disadvantaged by the color of his skin, says a lot about how far we've come.

(Honestly, I haven't seen this as a race between a black person and a white person, NOR have I seen it as a race between a man and a woman, but rather as a race between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. Their race and gender should not sway our votes one iota, in either direction, and it bothers me when people support either of them for that reason. Of course, they ARE issues in this election, because some people DO allow themselves to be swayed by such petty things. However, I personally choose not to frame the election around either race OR gender.)

[howeird]

but rather as a race between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama
Yup, me too.

Though the fact that you can have a black man running for President, and honestly claim that he has not been disadvantaged by the color of his skin, says a lot about how far we've come.
Yes and no. I personally feel the reason he was funded is the party felt they needed a token. A young white man with the same achievements would never have made it onto the ballot. Take away the color of his skin, and he's not all that extraordinary.

[herufeanor.livejournal.com]

Yes and no. I personally feel the reason he was funded is the party felt they needed a token. A young white man with the same achievements would never have made it onto the ballot. Take away the color of his skin, and he's not all that extraordinary.

Ah, I actually very much disagree here. Obama has an extraordinary level of charisma. Almost nobody in the political field right now has his skill for public speaking.

His actual achievements, in terms of his political career thus far, may not be that exceptional, but his speaking power is TRULY exceptional. I know that when I saw him give the speech at the Democratic Convention in 2004, I immediately thought, "This man is Presidential material." It's possible he wouldn't have gotten onto that stage in 2004 if he hadn't been black. I don't know what went into that decision. However, once he was up there, it was up to him to make an impression on the audience, and oh boy did he make an impression! THAT is what made him a Presidential contender.

[howeird]

His stage presence doesn't impress me. He's an actor playing a part - notice he has aquired a hint of a southern accent, something he certainly didn't grow up with. I'll take action over talk any day.

[herufeanor.livejournal.com]

Well, you're the exception, then. Most people are VERY impressed by his stage presence, and again, that's what has catapulted him into the spotlight. It seems that even most people who don't like him give him credit for being incredibly charismatic, they just characterize his charisma as misleading, a sham to cover up whatever it is they don't like about him.

[howeird]

I'm not impressed because I can do that too. In fact I'm doing it on stage in Saratoga tonight at 8 o'clock, and for the next two nights after that.

Yes, charisma goes a long way in politics, and I think that's a shame.

[cmdrsuzdal.livejournal.com]

So what you're saying is you haven't read his memoir? Gotcha :)

Yeah, black and biracial folks raised/educated in white environments totally lose any of the stigma of being black or biracial.

Similarly women who work in all male fields have the best time ever.

[howeird]

You mean the memoir he wrote to boost his chances of being elected?

Jeez, Louise, read what I wrote, not what you imagined I meant. What I wrote was:
I doubt that he was razzed about the color of his skin in Hawaii, though he may have been on hoity-toity Mercer Island.

Re-read the last half of that sentence, please, and untwist your undergarments.

women who work in all male fields
Or do you think Obama's gender makes him a non-traditional candidate? I don't. If a field is all-male, there would be no women working in it, would there?

But seriously, it depends on the woman, it depends on the field and it depends on the co-workers.

[cmdrsuzdal.livejournal.com]

Since it's unclear from your response whether you have read the book or not I'm not sure what some your answer actually means.

I was also unaware of my undergarments being in any particular disarray. Thanks for the tip, though.

My point, which does not seem particularly obscure or heated is that a) Obama has written quite extensively about his thoughts of race and of being raised in an environment where people see you as different even if you theoretically belong.

He was one of a small handful black kids in his school, which was certainly a very good school. So good that his mother and grandparents sent him there despite the expense, not because it was part of their 'privileged lifestyle'.

Later one he was still often in the minority in various environments including sometimes the African American community since he was, as you say, 'raised in the white world' which is a pretty interesting phrase in and of itself when examined.

Likewise, before converting to Christianity he was not a member of another religion so the phrase "changed his religion" made me wonder how familiar you are with his bio.

Aside from being an interesting read from the memoir perspective (a genre I find interesting) it was written before he ran for office of and contains several points that have been used against him such as the drug use and flirtation with black radicalism.

The point about women in all-male fields. Or rather "almost entirely all-male except for them" or "traditionally all-male" is that privilege, money or brains are no guarantee against discrimination. It was not referring to Obama, who is male obviously, but to the fact that being allowed into a group that has generally not included other people like you before is not the same as being accepted as part of that group nor does it erase prior attitudes or differences.

[howeird]

Good points. I have not read his books. I have read extensively about him and his upbringing from what I consider more objective sources like the Sun-Times and Chicago tribune in-depth articles (current and from his senate and state legislature days) and links from there to interviews with people who knew his parents and a couple of his teachers and fellow students). And of course the genealogy stories connecting his mother's side of the family with Cheney.

"Privileged lifestyle" is relative. Compared to the vast majority of African-Americans, he had it good. Much better than the functionally illiterate African-American adult students I taught in my year and a half at Seattle's inner-city black-owned Seattle Opportunities Industrialization Center.

You're right, one cannot change religion if one doesn't have a religion to start with. My bad. He was raised as a Freethinker, which I guess is similar to a Humanist these days.

I'm not much of a memoirs fan, except for ones written after the smoke has cleared and there is less of an agenda. Because he wrote memoirs before he got into politics, I mistrust them.

As for the all-male fields, I was just being snarky. I know what you meant and completely agree. My youngest sister was one of 5 women in the 5,000-student UW Engineering school, founded the Society of Women Engineers there, and has worked as a civilian for the Navy ever since she graduated in '82. Unlike me, she is a very cute, petite blue-eyed blonde. I have heard most, if not all the stories...

[cmdrsuzdal.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the clarifications and comments.

While I do suppose everything is relative, I wouldn't have thought to compare Barack Obama's life experiences to those of a functionally illiterate adult African-American student anymore than I would compare my own life experience to that of a non-citizen 30-something Mexican maquiladora. Both would seem like kinda weird comparisons to make.

Snark is fine, it's what makes the 'net go around :) I was just confused as to what it's aim was. I bet your sister has quite the potential memoir herself!

[howeird]

Weird comparison? I don't think so - All it compares are two people born in the same country who on the surface look like they belong to the same culture, but have had vastly different levels of opportunity available to them. One's lifestyle is obviously more privileged than the other.

Maquilladora? Make-up artist? (I don't speak Spanish, but I do speak Google).

[cmdrsuzdal.livejournal.com]

I guess comparing people who were born in the same country but only have surface similarities just seems weird to me in this context. I am superficially similar to the Infanta Christina of Spain but wouldn't have thought to compare myself to her for a discussion of this type. The surface similarities between her and I, as those between your functionally illiterate African-American students and Barack Obama don't seem to be quite sufficient to make the comparison terribly useful.

Maquiladora with one "l".

[howeird]

Context: My original remark was that Obama's color did not keep him out of good schools, because he was born into a white world. My students were born in the ghetto, their parents could not afford to send them to anything better than inner city schools. I wasn't trying to compare his life experiences to theirs, I was only trying to illustrate the theory one's color is not the huge barrier to advancement which your first response to my post implied.

[cmdrsuzdal.livejournal.com]

Ah, ok. I guess we misunderstood each other.

I thought you had said his only stigma was being raised by a single mom.

And what I thought I said was that even black and biracial people raised in relative privilege experience disadvantages due to their race/perceived race.

Naturally, I agree that any one single factor such as race, gender, orientation, nationality, etc. are not necessarily a huge barrier to advancement on their own and didn't mean to imply otherwise.