Arizona

[howeird]

While everyone is whining about how Arizona's new anti-illegals law will cause "profiling", I'm more concerned that the opposite will happen. The law basically give the Arizona police gestapo-like authority to ID anyone at all, for no reason at all. Ironically, this makes the law (IMHO) Constitutional because it treats everyone equally.

There is nothing in the law to say which country the illegals have to be from, and I'll bet there are probably some folks in Sun City who have overstayed their visas and look about as Hispanic as Pamela Anderson. Speaking of which, has anyone checked her visa lately? How many Canadians are here illegally? Oh wait, she has dual citizenship. Tommy Lee, OTOH, was born in Greece of Greek parents, and I don't see anything online about his citizenship status having changed. Hmmmmm.  I know some people from India and China who were caught in the dot.com bust, lost their H1 status, and can't afford to go home, but somehow have not been deported yet. Them and their entire extended families. Not that I want them to be: After all, they did come here legally and had a reasonable expectation of continued employment while they applied for citizenship.

And can we please stop whining about the Arizona law requiring all legal alien residents to carry their papers with them at all times? It's just a little wallet card, folks, and/or a passport. When I'm in a foreign country I carry my passport with me all the time, it's just common sense. And I carry my passport card in my wallet just in case the bug bites me to drive to Vancouver B.C. or fly to San Diego and walk across the border to Tijuana. Or take a cruise. :-)

Having said all that, I'm all in favor of the INS being beefed up, to help identify and process illegal aliens from whatever country they may have come. Add to that a vastly expanded dedicated immigration court system to handle the number of cases which this will result in. I'm for deporting anyone here illegally, with due process. I'm also all for making smuggling illegals into the country a subset of kidnapping, with the appropriate major federal jail time and fines.

But more importantly, we need to make it easier to come to the US of A legally, and add some appeals process to that - I currently have acquaintances in Fiji, Thailand and the UK who have been refused visas (after paying a $100 non-refundable application fee) just because the consulate interviewer said no. There is no appeal to this arbitrary decision.

Comments

[unseelie23.livejournal.com]

Mostly I'm annoyed with Arizona passing a law which dictates federal spending... which, of course, won't fly.

[howeird]

Disagree - many state laws dictate federal spending where there is a federal obligation to fund. Interstate highway maintenance, school lunch programs, etc.

Edit add:
Finally found and read a copy of the actual law:
http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

It does not spend a single cent of Federal money, or dictate any federal spending. It requires the state to immediately turn over confirmed illegal aliens to the custody of Federal border and customs authorities. What the federal authorities do after that is on their own hook, as it should be.

[unseelie23.livejournal.com]

That's not what I'd read previously, hmm...

[johnnyeponymous.livejournal.com]

I thought that the Coyotes were being treated as kidnappers? I know that cases of smugglers are all treated as a federal crime, and for some reason, I always thought that it was the kidnapping umbrella it fell under.

I certainly agree, we need to come up with an easier form of legal immegration that can handle much larger numbers than it does today. I've got family who have had all sorts of trouble with INS over the years, especially since several of my family members have no confirmable birth records.

Have no plans to go to Arizona, and I'm glad.
Chris

[howeird]

I thought that the Coyotes were being treated as kidnappers
Right you are. Looking at the Arizona law, here's a whole section about that.

[lemmozine.livejournal.com]

According to Wikipedia, "The illegal immigrant population of the United States in 2008 was estimated by the Center for Immigration Studies to be about 11 million people, down from 12.5 million people in 2007.[2] According to a Pew Hispanic Center report, in 2005, 57% of illegal immigrants were from Mexico; 24% were from other Latin American countries, primarily from Central America;[3] 9% were from Asia; 6% were from Europe; and 4% were from the rest of the world."

The solution you propose is, to say the least, impractical. How much does it cost, on average, to locate, identify, arrest, detain and deport a single person? If one of them happens to support a non-exportable family, and that family as a result of the deportation requires assistance from federal and state programs, how much does that cost?

Then there is the cost to businesses to find and hire new employees, generally paying higher wages for workers who are less able and willing to perform the required tasks.

And there are other costs to consider - lost sales taxes, losses to businesses who get revenues from this population, lost income taxes (many of these workers do pay into social security and medicare with no hope of ever receiving benefits) - and fewer kids in our schools plus fewer patients in our clinics and hospitals will result in job cuts for people who serve this population, including doctors, nurses, teachers.

Since about 50% of the people I help with their applications for medical benefits are undocumented, I imagine this would result in layoffs for about half of my own department. A lot of folks would be collecting unemployment.

How would you propose we taxpayers pay for all this?

Also, your solution is cruel beyond belief. It separates parents from their children, and would result in many of those deported dying. Would you deport an undocumented alien who is in one of our hospitals on life support, with the certainty that transport would result in death? How about one who's getting dialysis, but could not receive that treatment in their own country? What of a teenager who was brought in as an infant, grew up here in the US, and has no family or friends in their own country - and whose parents happen to have gotten employment cards or green cards but saw no reason to spend all that money on their child?

It might be kinder to just shoot them all.

[howeird]

Last things first:
How would you propose we taxpayers pay for all this?
Buy fewer B1 bombers. Stop the war in Iraq. Require all insurance companies to take the money they have been spending on advertising and give it to this program.

How much does it cost, on average, to locate, identify, arrest, detain and deport a single person?
Much less when there is an ongoing, serious program than the piddling 2-bit operation we have now. It costs a lot less to find and deport one of hundreds than it does to track down and deport just one.

Also, your solution is cruel beyond belief.
Not at all. Note the "due process" part of my solution. It implies that the exceptions you noted will be taken into consideration. And don't try to tell me dialysis isn't available in Mexico - it's a lot less expensive there.
http://www.health-tourism.com/dialysis/mexico/
It would save your company MILLIONS to send illegals to Mexico for their chronic medical care.

about 50% of the people I help with their applications for medical benefits are undocumented
And just out of curiosity, are you under any legal obligation to report these nice folks to the INS?

It might be kinder to just shoot them all.
Ah, the Cheney Solution. :-(

[lemmozine.livejournal.com]

1. Those things aren't going to happen, and the expense is going to be paid by the taxpayers. So again, how is this going to not cause another great depression and possibly a war with Mexico as well?

2. What if Mexico were to retalliate by stopping visas for US citizens, including those who are children of Mexican citizens? A lot of US citizen children, of all ages, would be stranded in the US. Who would pay for all the new orphanages?

3. So, you want to round them up and put them in detention camps. How is that NOT cruel?

4. I didn't actually say anything about Mexico. There are some places people would be sent where care is available. There would also be places they'd be sent where care is not available and/or unaffordable. I'm talking about countries all over the world, not just Mexico - and how many dialysis centers are available in rural areas of Mexico, outside the cities?

5. I am under obligation (HIPAA rules) to not report anything to anyone.

...and what of the millions of vacant apartments and houses that would result, and the major economic losses to the slumlord industry? Cities would lose a fortune in property taxes when all those properties are foreclosed.