Can 'o' Worms

[howeird]

I can haz one opened. After the BASFA meeting I was talking with someone  -- who shall remain nameless because Mind Like A Steel Sieve here can only remember his wife Carole's name, suffice to say long-time filker and filk party host and bona fide WorldCon Circus participant -- about the two bids to be decided at Montreal. Seattle and Reno are being bid, but what has my friend concerned is the Reno bid is being headed by someone from Portland.

We disagree on one point, and that is how important it is for local fandom to buy into and support a WorldCon. His opinion, which has the weight of experience behind it, is that local fan support will make or break a WorldCon. I, on the other hand, a fair weather fan but also veteran of many trade shows and work-related conventions, believe that anyone with reasonable travel agent/convention organizing skills, backed by the WSFS and its SMOFs, can put on a successful WorldCon in Reno, regardless of where they are based.

My argument hinges on three things:
1. It's a WORLDcon. Fans will come from all over the world regardless, and that includes gophers
2. It's a WORLDcon. People from all over the world, with the help of WSFS, will come forward to be program chair, party maven, hotel liaison, etc.
3. It's RENO, one of the most convention-centric cities on the planet. There's a stellar Chamber of Commerce and Visitors' Bureau willing to help bring 5,000 bodies into town to spend money and help the balance of trade stats.

We agree that it would help if local fandom was gung-ho about hosting a WorldCon. We disagree that it would make or break the con.

I can't see a lot of potential GoHs turning down a paid trip to Reno, whether the invitation email comes from someone in Reno or Portland. Or Iceland, for that matter. I can't see fans staying away in droves just because an international convention is chaired by someone from out of town.

Part of the opposing viewpoint is emotional (that's not a value judgment, just an observation) - WorldCon has always had pride-of-host as part of its charm. And local folks can more easily steer the con leaders away from stupid mistakes which an out-of-towner might make. But I don't buy either of these for a WorldCon. Regional and local cons, absolutely, but not a WorldCon, and not in Reno. Someone from Portland can get to Reno easily - it's a 1.5 hour flight - and staying in hotels would be part of the legitimate research.

I'll leave it at that. Feel free to chime in. Keep it friendly.

 

Comments

[melchar.livejournal.com]

That was Bill. ^_^

As for Worldcon, AFAIK - unless the rules have been suddenly changed - everyone pays for their own memberships/travel expenses/hotel rooms/food and all that.

Members pay, staff pays, *guests* pay. [Con committee heads pay MORE, since the majority of them have already paid to be a part of the bid committee - and some of them pay for additional con memberships to get specific people on-staff who are financially disadvantaged.]

So you have to factor this into your calculations. Add to this that the convention staff is made up of 100% volunteers, so it really helps to have a large local fan base to contribute bodies.

[howeird]

Writer/Artist GoH *pays*? That's whacked.

[bovil.livejournal.com]

The big GoH's are the only guests who don't pay. If you're not a headliner, you're not getting in free. All other "guests" (program participants) pay.

Of course, it's common for program participants, staff and volunteers to be reimbursed after the fact, when continuing positive cash-flow is no longer a concern.

The LA Worldcons are the only regular exception to this. For them every program participant gets a comped membership and a "Guest of Guest." It makes for very weird programming maneuvering to keep the comps down.

[howeird]

I'm fine with that, actually. I was impressed by the number of big names at ConJose, and expect something other than potential book sales got them there.

[bovil.livejournal.com]

There's a fair amount of wheeling and dealing going on between authors, agents and publishers in private rooms at WorldCon. In some cases it's one of the only times an author might meet his/her publisher and editor face-to-face during the year.

World Fantasy and World Horror are even more serious networking venues for the pros.

[kevin-standlee.livejournal.com]

I wish I could have pointed you at the small-fry would-be "pros" who insisted that real sci-fi conventions always give free memberships to every program participant, and that ConJose was the first convention to ever not do so, and that of course there wouldn't be a single pro attending because of it.

(Read: "My personal experience of convention policies is the entire universe, and nothing else matters. Your knowledge of anything I haven't personally experienced is meaningless.")

Even when, as is usually the case, Worldcons require that everyone except the Guests of Honor have paid memberships, they usually have people banging down the doors trying to be on programming. I suggested we schedule a single panel for 2 AM in the fountain in Plaza de Cesar Chavez and schedule every one of those "I must be on programming even though you don't have any use for me" people on The Contractual Obligation Panel, while making certain that this one panel didn't qualify you for post-con membership reimbursement should the convention have sufficient funds to do so. Programming didn't take me up on the suggestion, though.

[howeird]

Thanks - that bolsters my argument in the main posting that people will come flocking to WorldCon to participate. I would love to hear your response to the main entry. Oh, I see you did.. Thanks.

[howeird]

Bill! Thanks.

[reddheart.livejournal.com]

Between Portland and Reno, Reno probably has the better options logistically. Yes, you could host in Portland, but who is to say the Reno chair didn't look at his/her own town first for options, find them lacking for the potential needs of the Con, and decided another town may be better?

That's my curiousity. Personally, I could feasibly make both options (unlike hiking out to Canada), so I don't have a huge stake in it. But I'd like to know the insight of the chair and their entourage about why they chose that route, not necessarily jump to condemn it on the spot because it's not in the chair's home town.

[bovil.livejournal.com]

Portland is bidding Reno because the promised Portland facilities they want to bid keep being delayed. They got tired of waiting.

There is also the joke that Portland is bidding Seattle 2011 too. There may be more Portland folks than Seattle folks on that committee.

In any case, the competition between the two committees appears to be very amiable, unlike some other Worldcon site selections you may remember.

Reno doesn't have much of an organized local fannish community. Google only led me to one Reno SF convention, and that was a Creation about 5 years ago.

[iamradar.livejournal.com]

I believe the chap you were chatting with was named Bill.

[howeird]

Yup, Bill. Thanks. The easy names always get me. If his name was Wimuktanandana, I'd have remembered. I sometimes forget your first name, but never your last name. I think I've told you about that personal mnemonic.

[bovil.livejournal.com]

Well, his last name is "Laubenheimer" so it's kind of odd...

[howeird]

Hmmm. I'm not sure if I ever knew their last name.

[kevin-standlee.livejournal.com]

I'm taking no position in the 2011 Worldcon race -- as chairman of the 2009 WSFS Business Meeting, it's a bad idea for me to do so on account of the slight possibility that I might end up having to preside over any disputes. But I do wonder at why there are people who are so insistent that the leadership and most of the staff of a Worldcon must live in the host city -- except outside North America, where everything is in the same place.

The co-chairs of Interaction (the 2005 Worldcon in Glasgow) didn't even live in the same country as the convention site -- one lived in England (not Scotland) and one lived in the Netherlands. But I guess to a lot of Americans, everything foreign is same place, and Glasgow is in the same place as everything else in Europe, so the "carpetbag" issue doesn't apply.

But within the USA, it appears to be a huge issue. Indeed, for the 1993 San Francisco bid, we had people complaining because the bid leadership for a San Francisco Worldcon was in Sacramento.

Some of this seems to me to be sheer geographic illiteracy, and the rest based on an assumption that all conventions are completely organized and run by a handful of people who all live within a short distance of each other. The latter assumption was once true, because it was the only way to keep the communications in place that you need to run such an event. But it's no longer true, as long as you make the effort to keep communicating. In-person meetings are important, but it's no longer necessary that every member of you committee be able to get to weekly or monthly meetings in person. I was a division manager for the 2005 Worldcon in Glasgow. I attended one meeting in person -- and the convention only had five in-person meetings of the committee over the three years of planning -- by flying to Glasgow for the weekend. (Yes, the convention partially subsidized my travel, but it was still a lot of money out of pocket, along with the time and stress of travel.) Everything else was done by e-mail and IRC.